Transcript

(0:00) [Intro]

(0:06) Justin McMillen: You're an MMA fighter?

(0:07) Keenan Lewis: Yes.

(0:07) Justin McMillen: Recently retired.

(0:09) Keenan Lewis: Very recently retired. Yeah.

(0:10) Justin McMillen: How long has it been?

(0:12) Keenan Lewis: It's been two weeks.

(0:13) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Retired for?

(0:14) Keenan Lewis: For two weeks.

(0:15) Justin McMillen: Okay.

(0:16) Keenan Lewis: Yeah.

(0:16) Justin McMillen: How do you feel?

(0:17) Keenan Lewis: It feels good.

(0:18) Justin McMillen: Yeah?

(0:18) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. I made that deliberate choice.

(0:21) Keenan Lewis: Fighting professionally for 16 years. So it's been a long time of, of living that lifestyle and just everything dialed in. Everything towards the goal of competing. So, you know, when you finish that, it kind of feels like you've been working on a homework assignment for, like, 20 years, and you just, just turned it in.

(0:40) Justin McMillen: You know, that's a good way to see it rather than, like, you know, that you're coming to the end and then, what's, where could you possibly go from here?

(0:49) Keenan Lewis: No. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. I feel like in a lot of ways, a lot of fighters go about it one way, like the, the classic way is I'm going to train, I'm going to fight, I'm going to, I'm going to compete. And whatever works out will work out for me. And then afterwards I'll go and I'll be a coach.

(1:05) Keenan Lewis: But for me, I always kind of did things reverse. I have always been a coach. I've always worked. I've always trained people and I fought alongside of that as well. So people ask me a lot of times like, what's going to change for you? How is this going to be different? Like, I'm the same guy. I just turned in my work, that's all.

(1:23) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I love that. That's great. Yeah. It's, so the way that I first found out about you is through a mutual friend. And I started watching your, following you and watching you on Instagram, and you have a lot of really cool things. Well, I love the way you train. Like, you're different. I mean, you're, you're a kettlebell guy.

(1:41) Keenan Lewis: Not all the way, but, I mean, you...

(1:43) Justin McMillen: Very functional. Your bar work is cool, and, and you train to be able to move, which I really appreciate. A lot of, you know, there's, you go to any gym and you'll see guys sitting there staring off, waiting for their 30 seconds so they can get stronger on one thing so they can look better versus you.

(2:00) Justin McMillen: You're, you're, you know, you're doing all kinds of crazy dynamic movements. And so that's really interesting to me. So, like, talking about training methods would be cool to get into that a little bit. Yeah. And then on the other side of that, you're saying things that are so aligned with my audience and, the kind of message that you've been putting out there is really powerful.

(2:21) Justin McMillen: And so I love, I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions about certain things, but I'm not gonna put you on the spot, you know?

(2:28) Keenan Lewis: Please.

(2:29) Justin McMillen: Yeah. So. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, your stuff on personal responsibility is incredible. You know, the not victim mentality. Taking ownership to maintain control. I mean, these are really powerful messages that people need to hear.

(2:42) Justin McMillen: And, you know, you clearly were built in a certain way. And I'd love to understand how you came to be. So let's go all the way back to, I think you were wrestling in high school.

(3:03) Keenan Lewis: Yeah.

(3:04) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. So, and before wrestling, I was kind of like an overweight kid. And then, you know, I was into music and, and wrestling was the first sport that I ever did. Just something just possessed me to, to do it, and I lost a bunch of weight, changed my quality of life.

(3:17) Justin McMillen: How old were you when you started?

(3:18) Keenan Lewis: I was 13, I want to say. Yeah. So going into high school. Yeah, I graduated early, so I was a little, a little younger.

(3:24) Justin McMillen: Okay, so you were overweight at 13?

(3:27) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. And then, other stuff happened too, like my mom left when I was, like, 12. I had to move in with my dad. Had a stepdad who used to, you know, abuse and different things like that.

(3:41) Justin McMillen: Where'd you get a lot of anger?

(3:43) Keenan Lewis: I grew up in Reseda.

(3:44) Justin McMillen: Okay.

(3:44) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it was, the Valley, same city as the Karate Kid.

(3:46) Justin McMillen: Nice. Yeah. Did you watch the Karate Kid?

(3:48) Keenan Lewis: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would drive by that apartment all the time, too. But, yeah, you know, I, so I had a lot of anger, a lot of different things. No direction. And, you know, nobody really told me, like, what to do. You know, it was just...

(3:59) Keenan Lewis: I just found my own way.

(4:00) Justin McMillen: Got it. Yeah. So you're, you're 13, and you jump into wrestling. What, what kept you there?

(4:05) Keenan Lewis: I knew, I just knew in my heart that I could be good. I just knew in my heart that I could be good. And I knew that it was something so difficult for me that I was getting something out of it, that I couldn't really explain at the time. Nor would I have believed that I would be here today. From that moment.

(4:21) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I trip out on, like, what the fuck's up with wrestlers, man? You guys are like, I mean, you're, you're, you work so hard. I remember in high school watching guys, like, wearing plastic suits. Yeah. Running to lose weight. Yeah. And it was like doubles or working out in the morning.

(4:40) Justin McMillen: They're coming back at night, and they're the most jacked people in the whole, out of all the sports, you know. You work so hard just to step on that scale sometimes.

(4:50) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. It's crazy.

(4:51) Justin McMillen: Yeah. It's crazy.

(4:52) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. People don't, I don't think there's enough credit given to wrestlers. There's like, there's certain sports where it's like the harder you work, that's like a huge part of just getting to being elite.

(5:03) Keenan Lewis: And then, and then it's the new ones. Obviously technique matters as well. But if you can, you can outdo anyone on the mat if you're in better cardiovascular condition.

(5:13) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. So you got into wrestling at 13 and then you wrestled through high school.

(5:20) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. That's it. I just wrestled through high school, a little bit in some college tournaments afterwards.

(5:26) Keenan Lewis: And things like that. But I wrestled through high school. First year, ended up on the varsity lineup, but it was only because there was an open space. So that's kind of how it works for the team. If there's an open spot and nobody's there, like, you're the guy. So I spent my whole first year getting my ass kicked, really bad.

(5:44) Keenan Lewis: And then, I went to wrestling camp over summer, and I just trained all through summer, and my whole life was about this one thing that changed my quality of life. And then everything just started to kind of work out for me a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. But along the way of my wrestling path, like, I had so many things, so many goals, not come to fruition, you know, like, I wanted to win the city championship, and I came up second place each time. I wanted to place at state.

(6:13) Keenan Lewis: And, you know, the best I do is place at freestyle state. So there was so many things that I just had left unanswered, I guess. And competing ended up being all that I knew. It came to a point where I'm starting wrestling at 13 years old. This is good for me. It's hard and I know competition and, and getting out of that was, I had a resistance to stop competing.

(6:35) Keenan Lewis: And so I just kept going.

(6:40) Justin McMillen: I think it would be, and you don't have to talk about this if you don't want to, but your mom, even at 12 or 13. Yeah. How much of wrestling helped you to keep your head on straight?

(6:52) Keenan Lewis: I mean, wrestling helped me almost 100% with everything in my life at that point. Whenever I was sad or lonely or whatever, I had to get up and go train anyway.

(7:02) Keenan Lewis: You know, if I was preoccupied about one thing or another. Well, I had a tournament that Saturday that I had to get to anyway, you know? So just having that goal, like, in mind, made everything so much easier for me. And, just going forward, knowing that I was going to make something of myself. I didn't know what, but I was going to make something happen.

(7:24) Justin McMillen: If you, if you could, you know, like, let's just imagine that there's a 12 year old or 13 year old kid who doesn't feel too good about himself, whose life is not so great, and he's listening to this. What would you tell him in terms of jumping into something like wrestling?

(7:43) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. If I was going to talk to a 12 or 13 year old kid listening to this, who doesn't feel so great about themselves, you know, the truth is you have to grasp what tough love feels like, and that can be for yourself.

(7:58) Keenan Lewis: It's not always going to be times where you're building yourself up, or other people are saying good job to you. You know, taking that real responsibility and putting all of that responsibility on yourself is such an empowering thing to do. And, you know, finding that, finding that peace with that sad truth, is something really special, if you can handle that at a young age.

(8:22) Justin McMillen: Wow. Yeah, I was, I was really, well, sad, man. That's, you know, it's these little things like this, and you have a lot of this wisdom, and I want to put you on the spot. I was talking to Luke about this before, and I'm like, this guy has so many things. That's powerful.

(8:40) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it's something and it never ends.

(8:42) Keenan Lewis: It's not a, it's not a lesson that you learn and then, okay, you got it, and you move on. You're going to get taught that lesson again and again and again, and then you're going to put more on your plate, and you're going to learn that you can handle even more. And then more will come on your plate and you're going to learn you can handle even more, but just knowing and looking back that all that was on you, you know, and, and you handled it, that's something, that's the most empowering thing that you can get from wrestling or starting something new at all.

(9:06) Justin McMillen: That's great. Did you have any coaches or anything during that time period that had a big impact on you?

(9:14) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, I had a, I laugh just because, you know, we all had some classic coaches back in the day. I had a, I had a wrestling coach who was very, very harsh with me. I can't say that I learned, you know, the best of my technique from him, but he definitely facilitated the space for our team to do its thing.

(9:35) Keenan Lewis: And, you know, I would go to wrestling camps, and I will say that I took, I took wrestling so seriously at that age that that's all people knew about me. It was like, Keenan, yeah, he's serious about wrestling. And I had no business being that serious at the time. There was no reason why. You know, it's a sport that's going to be done in four years.

(9:55) Keenan Lewis: I didn't have plans to wrestle in college or anything like that. But the mentality that he had going forward, you know, just enabled me to be myself and have that, have that hard working mentality.

(10:08) Justin McMillen: When you say the, the, the way that he created the space or the mentality he had, like, can you describe it?

(10:15) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. I, for my wrestling coach at the time was so harsh that he, you know, we get there early, you know, somebody's late. He's going to throw a chair across the room. If people, if he thinks people are messing around or whatever, he's going to start throwing stuff and get angry. Tell us to go run up a hill, you know, a million times, something unrealistic that that I know he never did.

(10:39) Keenan Lewis: So I feel like he understood more or less what we needed to do to win. But having, like, the means to get there was a little bit different, but it was a, it was a hostile environment overall, you know. Got a couple kids out of the lineup taking it seriously, myself and maybe one other, one of my best friends, Adam Ollie, and, you know, we, we did our thing.

(11:02) Keenan Lewis: We went to wrestling camps over the summer just because we wanted to get good. We had a thrill of competing, we had a thrill of getting our hand raised, and it felt like combat for good.

(11:13) Justin McMillen: And he was toughening you up. Do you think he was doing it intentionally, or did you think he was just a loose cannon?

(11:20) Keenan Lewis: Both. Yeah, both. I think that he definitely had his intentions were in a good spot, you know, that kids needed to be tougher and kids needed to, to learn. And he was totally right. And I'm glad I had that, that energy and not so much of a loving, supportive type of energy. I'm grateful for that because that's what enabled me to put the responsibility on myself.

(11:43) Keenan Lewis: That's what enabled me to take some harsh truths if I needed them. And so I'm glad. But I know his intentions were to get everybody tougher. But, you know, I do think that he just happened to be kind of like a, a sour guy for a lot of reasons, and that's okay. Yeah, that's totally fine with me.

(12:01) Justin McMillen: Yeah, but it's, it's in this, in today's world where people aren't, everything is so soft. You don't hear stories like what you just described. You know, it's not like a common thing. In fact, it's like, oh, somebody did that, and they get, they get fired, and it's intense. And, you know. But yeah, maybe this person played a role in saving your life in a time where you were in a pretty bad spot, as in terms of your home life, you know?

(12:29) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. I became, I became unrecognizable from the age of 12 to how I was when I was 14. You wouldn't be able to recognize the, the young man that I became in that time. And it was because of everything, you know, because of everything that was going on, all the anger that I had, how I channeled it towards one thing, all the energies around me.

(12:50) Keenan Lewis: And, yeah, but I became unrecognizable. And I liked myself more and more.

(12:55) Justin McMillen: You were, you were like, building yourself.

(12:57) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, absolutely. Building myself from scratch.

(13:00) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I really hope the right people hear this, because what you're talking about around putting the responsibility on yourself and carrying it, you know, that's a big deal.

(13:12) Keenan Lewis: It is big. And I feel like I kind of left, I kind of finished high school around the time that different things started changing, so I kind of got out right in time. I feel like, I feel like this, you know, softer energy. This, you know, the things you can and can't say. I feel like that started to be implemented a whole lot more right after I graduated.

(13:30) Keenan Lewis: Social media was being used, but not everybody had a smartphone, you know, around that time. So I graduated in 2008. I was 17 when I graduated, and, yeah, I think I got out just in time to have a semi-normal, say normal. The old normal is new normal now, you know, but I had, you know, I had a more realistic experience competing and in, in high school.

(13:57) Justin McMillen: 2008, so you're...

(13:59) Justin McMillen: Yeah, that was right after the smartphones really sort of hit.

(14:05) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. Exactly.

(14:06) Justin McMillen: Yeah. So you're, and then did you graduate early because you were just a high performer in school or were you...

(14:17) Keenan Lewis: I was, I was, I was put ahead when I was younger. So weirdly, like, I had an interesting school life because I would always test very high. I was, you know, I was in a magnet program as a kid. I could read like crazy, but for whatever reason, I would not do my homework. Literally. I just refused at one point. And so I would get by on just scoring very highly on tests, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't do my homework.

(14:40) Keenan Lewis: So I had to kind of, like, you know, was a B and C type of kid. You know, I just got by, but I never did my homework, and I was tested really high, so I was put ahead when I was younger. So I ended up graduating at 17.

(14:50) Justin McMillen: Wow. So you got a good brain?

(14:52) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, I guess so. And honestly, I think I paid attention in class. You know, even though I didn't do homework, I was always very eager to learn, always paying attention.

(15:00) Keenan Lewis: And my teachers could see that, you know, I was always participating, and they could see that.

(15:05) Justin McMillen: Was there any people outside of the wrestling world that had influence over you as a young kid?

(15:11) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my, my dad, for sure. I lived with my dad and my uncle at the time who passed away.

(15:17) Keenan Lewis: You know, I felt, I felt, but I will say, though, throughout most of my childhood, if not all of it, I felt very alone. I felt very, very alone. And then it kind of hits you one day that nobody is going to come and fix your problems for you. And, you know, you empower yourself, you know, you empower yourself.

(15:40) Keenan Lewis: It comes through you. You open that channel and, and you will be helped.

(15:44) Justin McMillen: Yeah. What do you think is the biggest thing that, I mean, wrestling, for sure. But you, you talk about realizing nobody is going to come help. Is that, were you, do you remember when, at what point in your life that became clear?

(15:59) Keenan Lewis: It's hard to say.

(16:00) Keenan Lewis: But like I said earlier, you know, that, that moment of realization, it never really ends. You might learn it up to one point, and you're going to have another rude awakening at some point. But, man, I mean, growing up, I got jumped a couple times. You know, there's nothing anybody can do. It was tough for me when, when my mom left and moved away, and I just kind of had to figure out how to, how to make it happen.

(16:27) Keenan Lewis: And everything was different. So now that was, like, I guess, the first time. And then, and then as a, as a young adult, you know, moving out really young as well and kind of taking care of myself financially and things like that. Yeah. You just kind of look around and you're like, all right, this is it.

(16:45) Keenan Lewis: It's me or it's nobody, you know? And that's kind of how I've carried on all this time. I'm very grateful for all that, because it's enabled me to keep going in a lot of ways that, that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Meaning I set myself up to be a fighter in a marathon fashion and not in a sprint fashion, you know.

(17:05) Justin McMillen: What does that mean?

(17:07) Keenan Lewis: That means that I enabled myself to be able to keep on fighting, financially, career wise, schedule wise. I made a job for myself as a trainer, as a coach, that was all scheduled around my own training times, that I had non-negotiable training times where whether I had a fight or I didn't have a fight, I had time blocked off for training.

(17:28) Justin McMillen: So you're the guy that, like, if you get called in, you need to be there. You're ready. Are you always ready?

(17:34) Keenan Lewis: Yes. More, more or less. I wouldn't say so, particularly, though, because I had a lot of years where I didn't fight. And we'll definitely get into that. But I knew I had so much work to do on my, on my technique and my training that that was always a non-negotiable for me.

(17:50) Keenan Lewis: So one thing that I'm very proud of as a pro MMA fighter is that I've been able to financially support myself throughout my whole entire career without sacrificing my training time. So that means that I'm up at 5:00 am, you know, training clients before my, my morning training time. Then I'm figuring out my lunch and getting all my meals down and having more work in the afternoon, training again, and then training and then working again in the evening after that.

(18:17) Keenan Lewis: It's just been such a nonstop grind that left very little space for, for anything unnecessary.

(18:23) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah, that's, I'm seeing how you're built, man. It's crazy. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's amazing that, I just love that you, you basically painted a picture that you didn't have the best childhood, but you, it's like there's no dwelling on that, and it's just figure it out and get to work.

(18:43) Justin McMillen: And then you learned all these things at a young age that you then carried into the world, which is probably why you're becoming so successful, that your gym's opening, that you were able to fight as long as you did. Yeah. It's, you're rare.

(18:57) Keenan Lewis: Thank you. Man. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Another big thing that kind of helped me go forward, though, is also gratitude, because, you know, you can look at it one way and say, okay, my, my childhood, this I didn't get, this I didn't get.

(19:11) Keenan Lewis: That my parents one way or the other, you know, we all get some kind of a roll of the dice and you're either going to be up one way or down another way, and you're given what you're, what you're given. And you better find a way to be grateful with that, because you wouldn't want to be without it.

(19:28) Keenan Lewis: And, you know, whatever your story is, these pieces to the puzzle end up becoming just a part of your story. And then over a long enough timeline, you look back and you wouldn't want to change any of it because it made you part of who you are. But I was always so grateful for what I had and not upset for what I didn't have.

(19:47) Justin McMillen: Where did you learn that?

(19:48) Keenan Lewis: I think a lot of this stuff just kind of comes from, from a cosmic place. This stuff comes from a spiritual place inside of me. It's hard to say where I really learned that, but gratitude is something that has always rang through my soul. And if I ever have a moment, because we've, we all have moments where we're down on ourselves for one thing.

(20:06) Keenan Lewis: And we start thinking negatively one way, there's like this, there's like this hand behind me that bitch slaps me every time I start thinking negatively, where it's just like, no, look at what you have. Be grateful. And, and I feel that with every bone in my body, just an immense, immense, immense feeling of gratitude that I have, today, when I fight, when I've lost, like, anytime, it's always come through.

(20:34) Justin McMillen: Wow. That's really good. It's, do you, do you have any kind of discipline around gratitude practices, or is this just, you have this automatic response, like you described?

(20:48) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. I grew up very interesting with spirituality because my, my mom, she's very, very wise, and she would channel the earth. So when she would speak, she would channel, like, as Mother Earth, more or less.

(21:04) Keenan Lewis: And so I was always surrounded by a lot of people of different spiritualities and different faiths who talked about different things. And it, nothing ever particularly rubbed off on me. But what did rub off on me was finding your own path towards God, towards spirituality, whatever, whatever that line is for you, of finding your own, your own way.

(21:26) Keenan Lewis: And so for me, the, the, the most holy part about me is, is gratitude. And that's something that, that I feel every time. Every time that I'm down or whatever, that gratitude comes through for me. And so that's something that I felt a lot.

(21:43) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's incredibly wise. I think that, that is a common thread through...

(21:50) Justin McMillen: Like, so how do you, how would you describe gratitude? I know that's a difficult question. I ask people this all the time, not just on this show, but in life. Yeah. How do you, how would you describe it? Like, describe it as a feeling and then maybe as a thought, in any way that you want. How would you describe gratitude?

(22:08) Keenan Lewis: How I would describe gratitude would be just appreciation, in, in always. You know, gratitude is when you look at something and you're not just appreciating the fact that it's there, but you're appreciating what it is, where it came from, why it's there. It's other purposes that is served and the sacrifices that I had to make to, to get there.

(22:31) Keenan Lewis: So, like, the quickest example that I can think about is, when I'm fighting, I go and the show expects you to sell a certain amount of tickets. There's nothing said per se, but they want you, they prefer it if you sell a lot of tickets. And I remember when I started out, I would be, like, almost embarrassed to...

(22:52) Keenan Lewis: Or I would feel bad, almost, asking people to have to pay money to come watch me fight. It's not a place that you really want to have to be in. You know, fast forward, 15 years of, you know, forget the amateur. But fast forward 15 years of fighting professionally, selling, like, 250 tickets to a pro fight where people had to pay over 85 bucks to, to get in, they had to drive over an hour to get there.

(23:21) Keenan Lewis: And then they had to wait hours to see me fight. So I'm in the locker room or getting ready or having doubts about myself or whatever leading up to it. And then my mind goes to the gratitude that I feel for the support. I'm not just thinking about that I'm glad I sold 250 tickets. Mind blown that all these people are willing to make such a sacrifice to show up just to watch something happen.

(23:49) Keenan Lewis: They're willing to pay money. They're willing to give their time. They're willing to drive. They're willing to wait. They're willing to cheer for me, that type of thing. Like, it's not something that I can really describe in just one word, like, hey, I appreciate it. It's something that I feel my whole body take away my fear, give me my faith, push me in the direction that I need to go.

(24:12) Keenan Lewis: It's not something that you can ignore.

(24:15) Justin McMillen: Man. I have a similar experience where, you know, I speak a lot on behalf of my organization, and there's, we've treated thousands of people. We've got, we've got a lot of staff that have devoted their lives to the work we do. And a lot of times when I'm, like, getting ready to do something, if I'm afraid or I'm nervous, I just imagine all of them and I'm like, I'm...

(24:42) Justin McMillen: I'm here to represent everyone, you know. And there's this feeling I get of feeling there's so much appreciation and respect and love for all the people that have put their time and energy towards a common mission, that it gives me so much strength. It's, it's hard to explain that.

(24:58) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, there's no going back when you know that and you know that it's, it's you or it's nobody. Like, there's no going back on them.

(25:06) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like it becomes a duty or a, like an obligation. Obligation's a rough word. Like a responsibility, a commitment to honoring, like, the people that are surrounding you in some capacity, the people that are supporting you or supporting this idea. And then there's energy that comes with that. Yeah. So it's like, it's like a feeling plus energy, you know.

(25:33) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think about it like, it's almost a necessary pressure because we feel these things that, you know, the nerves going up to it or the fear or the doubts, but without that moment, you know, or without those feelings, the moment itself wouldn't be as great as it, as it was.

(25:50) Justin McMillen: It's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(25:52) Justin McMillen: That's, I mean, that's incredible. So you, you, let's go back to, you got done wrestling. You graduated at 17. Did you know what you were doing next? Was it like you had a clear picture or did you just...

(26:04) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. So when I graduated high school, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was taking some classes at college, and I went to trade school to be a journeyman lineman is what I wanted to be.

(26:17) Keenan Lewis: So I was going to work on the power lines for the DWP. And I laugh now because it's just funny how life takes you so many different ways, but just imagining myself back then, you know, not really having necessarily a direction. I was going to be some sort of an electrician. I was going to maybe take something in college, maybe get something in sales, but nothing really pulled me.

(26:39) Keenan Lewis: And then in this whole time I was training in Brazilian jiu jitsu, and I started in boxing and taking things seriously, and training in that way was all I really ever knew. So before I knew it, I ended up having my first fight. And, you know, I did a couple of jiu jitsu tournaments, did very well.

(27:01) Keenan Lewis: And then I took a fight on one day's notice. It was like a warehouse fight. Yeah. Classic. But these fights, they were, they're called smokers. So a smoker is an unsanctioned fight. So at this time, there was no sanctioning body for amateur MMA fights. So every amateur MMA fight at this time was going to be a smoker.

(27:24) Keenan Lewis: So I took that fight on one day's notice, and I didn't tell anybody that I was fighting. I only told my older brother. He's not a fighter at all. But he just filmed it, and he was just there. You know, I didn't really want any outside pressure. I just wanted to go to this place and handle it and do it.

(27:43) Keenan Lewis: And I won pretty dramatically. And once I just kept going with that, everything else in my life started to work out for me. So I felt like I was living in my purpose there. I started to work as a personal trainer a whole lot more. And in the beginning, it was all fitness. And that's what really changed things for me was because...

(28:07) Keenan Lewis: So I was going to trade school and I could see the salary that, that a lineman would make, you know, which is a good salary.

(28:14) Justin McMillen: Yeah, decent salary and good, and good benefits, which is...

(28:17) Keenan Lewis: That was like the main thing, but you could see the salary that a journeyman lineman was, was making, you know, and I'm 18 years old now and so that money seemed great, but I'm 18 years old and I know what salary that is.

(28:29) Keenan Lewis: And I started making more just from my own personal training business. Opened up my own gym at 18 years old, for fitness. Had group classes going on, had a couple employee coaches.

(28:42) Justin McMillen: And at 18? At 18?

(28:43) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is crazy to, I think back on it and I can't believe it.

(28:49) Keenan Lewis: And then everyone is, like, looking at you like, oh, Keenan, you know, you're doing this, you're doing that. And to me it was just like, well, of course, you know, I didn't know any different. And you look back and you realize how young you were, you know, doing all that stuff. But looking back, like, you know, it doesn't really hit you how young you are.

(29:04) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah, that's. Well, it makes sense too, just the way, I think you painted a picture for people listening to this of what it takes to have the, so everyone, everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people are looking for answers for how to be successful in life. And you, through just the first 20 minutes of this, you painted a picture of the different ingredients that exist, you know, wrapped around your heart, that created the kind of person that could go do that.

(29:37) Justin McMillen: I think gratitude, personal responsibility, this kind of, like, strength and no matter what mentality. And you got it, you get, no one's going to help you. You got to get your shit done. You put all that stuff together and that's it. Guys, like, if you want to know, put those things together and then go try something.

(29:57) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, absolutely.

(29:58) Keenan Lewis: I mean, and this is, I feel like this is somehow tailored more to people who maybe, maybe have had a difficult time accepting mentors into your life, you know, because it can be a lot easier if you have a mentor showing you. Step one, step two, step three. They're believing in you, encouraging you. But sometimes, many times, deep down in our soul, we're the only people who really know what our purpose is and what our path is to go for it.

(30:22) Keenan Lewis: And you know when you're feeling what's right for you. And then sometimes you can see something that you know that you, like, a goal you have. Like, man, it would really be cool if I could be a painter one day. It'd be really cool if I could be a promoter one day or something like that. And you just feel that in yourself.

(30:39) Keenan Lewis: But then sometimes you have to just go for that and not really have a backup plan and just go for that. You have to give yourself the non-negotiables on what you're going to do and when, and feel it and just go. And not everybody's going to tell you exactly what you need to do next.

(30:57) Justin McMillen: Yeah.

(30:57) Justin McMillen: Yeah. The non-negotiable is the other thing. You said it. I mean, you built a life where you could train, where you had your own training times that were not negotiable, and that was part of how you were able to sustain being a fighter. So it's like you've got terms as a man. This is what I do and don't do.

(31:12) Justin McMillen: You've got all this drive. You're not just sitting around waiting for the next thing. You're, you're burning the boat. Meaning I'm going to go out and do it. And there's no plan B, you're just going to go for it. Personal responsibility, high levels of gratitude. Let yourself get smacked on the back of the head, reminding you like, hey, I, you know, knock it off.

(31:31) Justin McMillen: Like, don't feel sorry for yourself. You know, there's plenty of things to be, to be happy for. There's plenty of things to appreciate. If everything didn't happen, I wouldn't be sitting here in my life, you know? So there's a part of it too, where it seems like you have an incredible ability to make peace with your past, which also...

(31:49) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, I think, I think that's newer. I'll say that's a whole lot, that's, that's newer for sure. Okay. Yeah. And another thing, you know, you asked me earlier, when did I really learn that? When it came to gratitude and things. And you never stop learning it, but I'll say I had, so I had a lot of periods in my life where I felt like I couldn't fight for whatever reason, had an injury, wasn't training properly, something going on with my knee this way.

(32:16) Keenan Lewis: Something going on with business another way. But I've always felt linked to my dad, and my dad was very, like, normal. Played football in high school type of dad. Never did wrestling, never really got in crazy shape. But in my early 20s, he started becoming a bodybuilder. And he got in very good shape after he was 50 years old.

(32:42) Keenan Lewis: And he shared this with my, with my older brother who got into powerlifting as well. And they lifted a lot of weights. And when I was 22, on Father's Day, my dad dropped a 350 pound barbell on his neck. He shattered his trachea, bled out, died on the scene. He was in a coma. Yeah. Lost his vocal cords.

(33:05) Keenan Lewis: And that was, at that time, my excuse to stop what I was doing. That was my excuse. I can't fight. I got to go take care of my dad. That was my excuse at that time. And I did. He's okay. You know, he has a permanent tracheotomy. His, his name is now Whisper.

(33:25) Keenan Lewis: He speaks with a false voice. And, you know, I've, he's alive. More than alive. Yeah. Let me fast forward now, five years after that, I'm on my roughest time ever as a man. You know, I'm 27 years old, bought a house when I was 25. 27 years old, I'm forced to sell my house.

(33:47) Keenan Lewis: My house is in pre-foreclosure. No money coming in. Injury. Had an injury. I have to sell my house and get rid of my, my dog. Roughest time for me. My dad then, and we have no family here. It's just me. My brother lives in Colorado. My mom lives in Oregon. But everybody's spread out, so...

(34:06) Keenan Lewis: And then Christmas day, after Christmas, my dad gets hit on his motorcycle by a drunk driver, a hit and run, and really shook everything. Another coma. Ends up losing his right arm from the accident. But in, in these moments, so like, the first time that my dad's accident happened, that was my excuse to stop what I was doing.

(34:30) Keenan Lewis: Then the second accident happened, and I was in the worst time of my life. Way worse than when I was 22 and everything was going great and this happened. I had to completely pick myself up. And that's the hardest smack of gratitude that I ever had in my life, because I was feeling so sorry for myself about having to sell my house, about how my, my gym failed at that point.

(34:55) Keenan Lewis: And I had an injury, losing record as a pro fighter at that time. Didn't feel like anybody took me seriously. The hardest smack of gratitude I ever had was seeing my dad teach himself how to walk again. For the second time. Me seeing that happen for the second time, I instantly just thought about how grateful I need to be to even be able to walk into a cage, to even be able to, for people to want me to fight.

(35:25) Keenan Lewis: Period. And it was at that moment I threw everything into fighting. I threw everything into fighting. I got rid of all this old, like, backup plan mentality, and I just threw everything into there, and I knew I had so much more to give, and, and I was right.

(35:45) Justin McMillen: Geez. That's rough. Is he good now?

(35:48) Keenan Lewis: He's good. You know, that's what's really amazing. So he has one arm and a permanent tracheotomy, and he currently has the biggest collection of trikes, which are like motorcycles with three wheels, in Arizona. He's a custom trike builder, and he is known for, he's known for his one arm garage, where he does everything himself with one arm and a tracheotomy.

(36:13) Keenan Lewis: So he builds the most amazing trikes you've ever seen, all with one arm. And it's the name of the place. You guys, shout out, yeah. Whisper. Whisper's One Arm Garage. Yeah. In Mesa, Arizona. He builds custom trikes. Go to him if you want the most badass custom trike build. Hit up my dad, Whisper.

(36:31) Keenan Lewis: And he'll do it with one arm. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Delightful. Yeah, but, I mean, this is the, you know, I'll say this about my dad as well. He gave us so many crazy talks growing up. I don't know if you're familiar with, there was an old TV show called The Munsters.

(36:50) Justin McMillen: Yes.

(36:50) Keenan Lewis: So my grandpa was Grandpa Munster. Yeah. So my dad's dad was, was Grandpa Munster. That was Al Lewis.

(37:01) Justin McMillen: So he had, like, the, yeah, the vampire in the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Grandpa.

(37:09) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. That's my grandpa Lewis.

(37:12) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, that's so cool.

(37:16) Keenan Lewis: Growing up, you know, my dad didn't really know what we were going to do, necessarily, but he had some pretty badass pep talks. Yeah. And when the shit hit the fan and I saw him have to walk his talk, he absolutely did. And that was all, all I really needed to go forward.

(37:46) Justin McMillen: Damn. That's, I'm so, I'm so stoked you're here. This is great. It's, I didn't know, a lot of times guys, when they're, you know, your social media, the people will go and they'll just write a little thing that they maybe don't even believe in. Although all of your stuff looks like you live the way that you talk, but your story right now is showing me, showing everyone that you are exactly who the hell you say you are.

(38:05) Keenan Lewis: Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That's all, that's all we can be. I mean, all this stuff happened, but at the same time, like, I look back at it and it might be, like, a crazy story or whatever. Like, I feel silly even thinking that anything bad happened, like, that's how much gratitude I feel about it. Like, all this shit happened and I'm so grateful. That was the kick that I needed to go forward.

(38:24) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, I relinquished all of the fear and I took action going forward. I was so scared to fight so many times. I didn't want to lose. You know, and people look at you as a coach. They look at you as somebody who trains a lot, and you don't want to put yourself out there because you're scared to, to lose. And gratitude is what helped me relinquish a lot of that fear.

(38:39) Justin McMillen: Yeah. It's like you could not step in the ring and then you never know for sure, right? So there's, like, a double edged sword there. One is that you don't have to be afraid that you're going to look stupid. The other side is that you never know for sure if you're able to do it.

(38:52) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. You know, and that's, I think this is like the, the internal battle of the fighter. Right. It's like, you know, people see you in a certain kind of way, especially as a coach.

(39:01) Justin McMillen: Yeah. I think about you guys a lot. I trained, in mainly it was boxing, kickboxing, for a couple of years, for multiple hours a day, ended up getting kicked in the stomach and just doing like a, like 100 teeps to the stomach. And with this guy, he was, he was a SEAL. Is, is a SEAL.

(39:20) Justin McMillen: And we were going harder and harder. It's like a trust thing, you know? You know how it is. You just increase. But he went up and in and he, like, did something to my pancreas and I threw up. And then we went back to training and then the next day I woke up and I had pancreatitis. And I didn't put it together.

(39:34) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I didn't realize that they were related. And I ended up, I went from 205 down to 139, and for months I was in and out of the hospital. Almost killed me. It was crazy. And yeah, I still, I didn't know until the very end when I finally got to Cedars-Sinai that they, because they found a mass, eventually. So I would get kicked from place to place, because when you have pancreatitis, it's like, put you in the hospital, you don't eat, you get a lot of fluids, it goes away, then you're released.

(40:02) Justin McMillen: And so you sort of get kicked from spot to spot. But after ten or so of different treatments, it was like, this is not getting better. This guy, you know, and I was wasting away. I finally found a doctor in LA that did, like, he went in through my throat and actually, like, scanned, and they found this massive, like, mass on the back of my pancreas.

(40:25) Justin McMillen: And so they had to biopsy it, check it for cancer. And I had my third kid, like, I just had my third kid. Yeah. And super scary time. I was in the hospital for seven days or five days waiting for the results of that. And because pancreatic, my grandfather died of pancreatic cancer. And, you know, I'm almost to the end of this.

(40:42) Justin McMillen: I don't want to, you're the one who should be talking, not me. But so it wasn't cancer. And so they ruled that out. And the doctor said, you know, did, did you get into a car accident? Did you, like, the only thing I can think of is that it's some sort of trauma consistent. I started laughing, I was like, oh God, yeah.

(41:01) Justin McMillen: So what I'm stoked is it's not cancer, right? Right. But then the other side, I was, like, so grateful that my friend had kicked me, in that that's what it was, you know, that we solved it, right? And this guy can rebuild.

(41:14) Keenan Lewis: Wait. So the mass was because of the kick?

(41:16) Justin McMillen: Yeah. He kicked me so hard that it produced, like a, on the back of my pancreas.

(41:21) Justin McMillen: Like, either in the muscle or maybe just on the pancreas. But there was such a giant mass that it was closing my main pancreatic biliary duct closed. And so, and your pancreas secretes juices to help neutralize the acid after it goes through your stomach into this place called the duodenum. And it also puts enzymes in to digest food.

(41:43) Justin McMillen: And if that gets closed off, it goes the other direction and it just starts eating everything. So, like, yeah, it's acid. Yeah. So it was eating my muscle. It was eating, so I have scarring all over my pancreas. But he went in and he put these, like, tubes in there, stents, and he rebuilt it. And he saved my life.

(42:01) Justin McMillen: Well, and it changed everything. The level of gratitude I felt after that was so, like, everything, I mean, all I could think about was my children and my wife. Everything shifted. And it was one of the most important things that ever happened to me, like the most valuable things, because it just shook everything into place.

(42:23) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it's so interesting how that can be something that could be so detrimental. But then over a long enough timeline, the blessing reveals itself.

(42:31) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah. But where I started this story was just in the gym. I was at American Boxing Gym, which is right off the street from here. And the coaches, you know, they're incredible people and they're giving their heart to us, you know what I mean?

(42:44) Justin McMillen: They're, like, trying. And you can tell some don't want to be working with guys. And it's like, this guy doesn't really, he's not really going anywhere. Other ones really want to bring up that fighter that, you know, can make it big. And a lot of them, you wonder, like, are they good? Like, can they do this?

(42:58) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Right. And I can imagine the pressure of, yeah. You know, it's like, well, your students, like...

(43:03) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's mostly in our own heads. I mean, but everyone will say, okay, you know, win or lose, we'll still support you. But I mean, I'm asking people to trust me in teaching their techniques. So if I go out there and I'm doing something that I showed them and it's not working, you know, it doesn't look good.

(43:20) Keenan Lewis: For my business. Right. So that's just one more thing to add to the stress of walking into the ring.

(43:25) Justin McMillen: Yeah, because one thing, if you're, like, training, you know, Rocky style in a gym somewhere, like in a barn, but you're, like, in the gym with these people that are trusting you. And so when you go fight, you have this extra feeling of, like, I can't let them down.

(43:39) Justin McMillen: And that's, that's got to be challenging. I want to ask you, so you went from wrestling to jiu jitsu?

(43:45) Keenan Lewis: Yes.

(43:45) Justin McMillen: Yeah, I went from wrestling to jiu jitsu first. What would you tell, for people who are listening to this that are wrestlers that want to make that transition or start, you know, start practicing jiu jitsu or training jiu jitsu, what would you tell them?

(44:01) Justin McMillen: What advice would you give to yourself or tell them about how to make that move?

(44:05) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. The first piece of advice I would give to wrestlers starting jiu jitsu is put people on top of you, you know, because wrestlers are almost always going to be getting the takedown or being on top. But the more times that you can learn how to escape from bottom or pull, sweep...

(44:21) Keenan Lewis: So you'll get a rep, you know, on getting up or reversing somebody every single time. So that's the most basic thing. So I always put people on top of me, even when I'm rolling today, as a black belt, I still, you know, when we're starting, I'm always going to put people on top of me first because they know my takedowns are there.

(44:38) Justin McMillen: Sure. I saw it. Yeah. Hold that, bro. Is that what you call it? Yeah. High crotch takedown, double leg. Yeah, yeah.

(44:47) Keenan Lewis: I owe that a lot too, my conditioning that I put in for the camp.

(44:52) Justin McMillen: For people to know what I'm talking about. So you're now retired, and I watched your last fight, or I watched highlights from it. And you were taking a beating a couple times, man.

(45:06) Keenan Lewis: Oh, yeah, I had to dig deep.

(45:08) Justin McMillen: Yeah, but then I saw, I saw The Wrestler and you come out, and I was like, oh, yeah.

(45:14) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it's, that was funny. I mean, I had a lot of pressure for that specific fight. I coach a lot more people now. Now a gym owner. So I had a whole lot of pressure for that fight. And you train for it one way, you know, for a long time, and you visualize it one way. But it did not go as I visualized it at all, you know, so I had to dig deep and just make that choice, you know, that I was going to win.

(45:35) Keenan Lewis: I got hit very hard in the first 20 seconds. He threw a teep at me, and I caught it. And there's a way, when somebody throws their left hip at you, you're supposed to catch it this way. And when they throw that right hip at you, though, you're supposed to catch it this way. That would have helped me not get hit, but I caught it this way, and he fell for it and cracked me so hard.

(45:58) Keenan Lewis: This is the first 20 seconds. The first real strike of the fight.

(46:01) Justin McMillen: You almost went down too. Oh, yeah. You dropped one knee.

(46:04) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, yeah. And if you've never had your bell rung before, different things can happen each time you get hit. Sometimes it's going to be like your vision is cockeyed. You know, sometimes you might see black for a second, or you see white.

(46:16) Keenan Lewis: For me, it reversed my memory, like, like two seconds. So I stumbled, I hit the floor. But then, like, I didn't necessarily know what happened in that moment. It wasn't until I, I remember sort of catching a kick. I remember, you know, about to punch him or something, and then I just, I know, and then boom, I'm recovering.

(46:36) Keenan Lewis: So I went to that survival. I'm still, like, clearing the cobwebs. And I definitely lost that first round. But after I reversed him at the end of the first round and I kind of got on top for a little bit of ground and pound of control, that gave me the hope. But he had me rocked, shot in to try to take him down.

(46:56) Keenan Lewis: He reversed me. He was on top hitting me and ended up taking my back. And in that moment, I saw one whole reality, like, playing out where I lose this fight. I lost my retirement fight. I was visualizing my speech afterwards, having to face that music. And I saw the whole thing flash before my eyes. And then I made a conscious choice to go the other way and not let that loss happen.

(47:24) Keenan Lewis: And then it was just kick it into high gear. I need to make every single round the most dominant round that I can. Definitely lost the first round. Can't get hurt. I need to make it no question that I win the round. And I just did what I had to do. Big takedowns, and I conditioned very well for that fight.

(47:42) Keenan Lewis: And that's really what did it for me. Yeah. I was ready to go another round easily, as far as my conditioning. A lot of sprints, a lot of running, you know.

(47:51) Justin McMillen: Yeah, that, I mean, it literally looked like you just picked that dude up. And the amount of strength that looked like you had, I don't know, he had some momentum going, so you were able to, but...

(48:02) Justin McMillen: Holy hell, man. Yeah. You just slammed him and it was, yeah.

(48:06) Keenan Lewis: My, my coach is my old training partner, one of my coaches, Jorge Garcia, and we actually knew each other from wrestling. So he wrestled at San Fernando High School, and I wrestled El Camino, and we both always kind of knew each other.

(48:20) Keenan Lewis: Mutual respect. And we've always been around the same size, but he's been retired for a few years now, so he's a whole lot, he's, like, a thick 171, 180 sometimes. So I was doing all my takedowns on him. And I fight at 135. So when I was, I got it on his legs, or it was time for me to take him down.

(48:37) Keenan Lewis: He felt very, very light.

(48:38) Justin McMillen: Yeah. You know, it looked like it was nothing for you. So his crazy good. Yeah. So that, yeah. So back to wrestling and jiu jitsu. So, so obviously you started training boxing too, and then Muay Thai as well.

(48:53) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, yeah, boxing and Muay Thai was about the same time. And for my Muay Thai, I just, and my boxing, I felt like I just couldn't quite grasp it.

(49:04) Keenan Lewis: I looked great on the pads, you know, you would look at me and, you know, think I'm going to beat somebody up. But when it came down, time to sparring, there's, like, the timing, there's the rhythm, and there's, like, a certain thing that I was just missing. And it took me a while to get that.

(49:19) Keenan Lewis: It wasn't until I got with my current coach, Julio Trana at Saekson's Muay Thai. And I just knew that I was being trained right at that point. And then things started to work out for me. Yeah. He, my coach, Julio Trana, all these guys have just been there for me and seen all these things happen from, like, all those, my dad's accidents, all my different ups and downs.

(49:43) Keenan Lewis: They've, they've been a part of it. And Julio actually sent me to Thailand in 2022, and that was for me to go down there and train and just get my mind all the way clear and feel what it feels like to just throw myself and immerse myself into a training lifestyle. And I was supposed to fight in Thailand, away from all of the pressure, away from anybody, just go down there and not have to sell tickets and just go get a fight.

(50:13) Keenan Lewis: My opponent, I was training very hard for that fight. And then my opponent got in, like, a motorcycle wreck right before the fight. I wasn't able to fight. Heartbroken, went out there. I sacrificed a lot. There comes that smack of gratitude again. Hey, man, you're in Thailand. You got a great camp. What can you do to use this momentum and propel you forward?

(50:38) Keenan Lewis: This was in 2022. This was, like, you know, in June of 2022, and then July comes, back. And then we booked a fight for August 20th, 2022. And it was going to be my first fight back. And that was the one that was meant to happen. So I know that my fight in Thailand was not meant to happen.

(51:00) Keenan Lewis: And then I hadn't had a fight in four years at this point. 2022 came back, and then I ripped off a five fight win streak, which was insane at that time. And at my age and with the level of competition that I was fighting, and that's what really kind of put me on the map again.

(51:17) Justin McMillen: Did, was it Muay Thai that really made the shift or was it a mentality shift?

(51:22) Keenan Lewis: Absolutely a mentality shift, because I've always been a wrestler by, by nature. But the shift, when I was down there, I was also training MMA. It wasn't just Muay Thai, but for me, because I've always been wrestling and jiu jitsu, my Muay Thai was always my weakest point of my, of my fighting game.

(51:40) Keenan Lewis: So I feel like I threw everything into that, more or less. These past, these past 15 years, I've just been kind of trying to build that up as good as my ground is, my, my striking. And I've had some really good striking performances. So being able to, you know, have that feather in my cap as, as a striker, and be a striking coach now, is something that I know that I needed to do for myself.

(52:02) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Did you continue training in traditional boxing, American boxing, or did you do some Muay Thai?

(52:08) Keenan Lewis: It kind of became all Muay Thai. You know, our style of Muay Thai is a little bit different, a lot more westernized. Saekson Janjira, back in the day, he kind of had a different swagger about him than a lot of the other, sects there.

(52:22) Keenan Lewis: The other Muay Thai fighters from, like, the golden era had a lot more head movement.

(52:27) Justin McMillen: Understood.

(52:28) Keenan Lewis: Boxing a little bit more. Not so rigid. So with my training with Julio Trana at Saekson's, it worked for me. I was able to split punches and put things together and, you know, use my level changes for me.

(52:41) Keenan Lewis: So everything was kind of becoming my own style.

(52:44) Justin McMillen: Gotcha. So, yeah, it seems like that's the case with, I mean, I'm definitely not an expert, but I've trained with a few different pretty decent trainers from Muay Thai, and one of the guys was, like, crazy with his feet. I mean, he was doing the most insane stuff with his feet.

(53:01) Justin McMillen: And he was working with Tony Ferguson for a while. A lot of Tony Ferguson's, like, shuffling and, you know, he was into that kind of thing. And he was a big part of that. I don't know that that actually ended up working out for him. But it was fun. It was just, like, interesting to see how he did things versus other coaches, and they're all focusing on different things.

(53:20) Justin McMillen: I think Muay Thai allows for a lot of, yeah, you know, different kinds of flavors of handling things, you know.

(53:26) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. I mean, it's the only stand up discipline that translates really for MMA. Kickboxing, there's no clinch, you know. So it's the only sport that really translates to what you can actually do in an MMA fight.

(53:39) Keenan Lewis: You can elbow, you can knee the head, you can grapple, you know. So, yeah, that's why people tend to gravitate towards Muay Thai a lot for MMA. But, you know, you have to have the right coach and you have to make it work for, for you as well. It does a lot of things like, it's not all a one size fits all style.

(53:59) Keenan Lewis: You have to see what you end up doing in your fight, what you like to do, what works for you, and then make the adjustments from there.

(54:06) Justin McMillen: That makes sense. And the translation makes sense too. I mean, what you're just talking about, the difference between that and traditional kickboxing, like, there's definitely something there. And I think there's a culture too around Muay Thai, that Muay Thai definitely, it's like a hardness culture.

(54:22) Justin McMillen: There's a whole other layer to it. It's not just, I mean, some of the toughest people on the planet, you know, are fighting those fights.

(54:32) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. So yeah, Muay Thai is growing. It's really growing here in California, many gyms on the rise. And it's nice, I think that with Muay Thai specifically, there's a respect for it, like as a legit martial art, you know, as a traditional martial art, almost.

(54:50) Keenan Lewis: And, you know, there's a lot of sportsmanship in Muay Thai as well. I'll say this. It's a lot easier to train for Muay Thai than MMA.

(55:01) Justin McMillen: Why do you say that?

(55:02) Keenan Lewis: For me, I mean, you're having Muay Thai contained within MMA, so within one MMA fight is like a whole Muay Thai fight in itself.

(55:12) Keenan Lewis: Plus a wrestling match, plus a jiu jitsu match, plus whatever else is going on in there. So, you know, fighting MMA, you have to learn how to divide your time. Make it work for yourself. So if you're training Muay Thai, you're just going to train Muay Thai.

(55:28) Justin McMillen: What's your best out of all of those? What would you say was your best game?

(55:33) Keenan Lewis: My best, my best way that I put it up.

(55:36) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Are you the best on the ground? Are you, like, a striker?

(55:41) Keenan Lewis: Wrestling. For me, if you put me as just a wrestler and we're going to be on collegiate rules and going there, I might not get you down. But if I can throw my punches in there and make you hesitate and, you know, use some of my level changes or have you respect my, my hands, I know that I'll be able to score a takedown.

(56:04) Justin McMillen: Yeah. If you were to give advice to somebody that is, you know, 18, 19 and is thinking that they want to try to make a go as a professional fighter. Yeah. What would you tell them?

(56:15) Keenan Lewis: It depends on their background a little bit. It might be kind of funny, but if I was going to give advice to anybody around 18 or 19 who wanted to be a pro MMA fighter, I would tell them to pick something else.

(56:29) Keenan Lewis: And my reason, two reasons. One, it's not easy, but two, if you really want to do it, it doesn't matter what I say to not do it, you're going to do it anyway. And that's really what it takes. Is that type of mentality of, of you're going to do it and you're going to make it happen no matter what.

(56:46) Keenan Lewis: Because in somebody telling you not to do it, that's the least of your worries. You know, you're going to have somebody in front of you trying to kick your ass. You know, that's what you really should worry about. And you have to just have those non-negotiables, understand that it's not going to be a clear cut path, but what I would say for, like, the semantics, was make your striking gym your home gym, and then find a jiu jitsu gym that has a good wrestling class as well.

(57:16) Keenan Lewis: But I think that for MMA fighters, your striking gym should be kind of your main gym headquarters. Some people do it the other way around, where their main gym might be the jiu jitsu gym, and then they have a striking coach, and that one works out okay. Just kind of depends on what's available to you. But yeah, you need a jiu jitsu coach and you need a striking coach.

(57:36) Keenan Lewis: And if you have those two things and you're putting in all the work, you can make something happen.

(57:42) Justin McMillen: Nice. Do you think everyone should learn some sort of martial art?

(57:46) Keenan Lewis: I do think everybody should learn some sort of martial art. Yeah. There's, you know, we have these boundaries where we walk around and, you know, we're rubbing shoulders with people and not everybody is going to respect your space.

(58:00) Keenan Lewis: You know, not everybody is going to understand that you don't want to be touched or something, you know, but breaking those boundaries and just kind of feeling what it feels like to move a human body, or to kind of just get that feeling of somebody is trying to resist you. It's a foreign feeling to too many people, you know.

(58:20) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it's a foreign feeling to way too many people.

(58:22) Justin McMillen: I've never heard it put that way before. Keenan, I think that's, yeah, that's interesting. And, like, we're so used to not. And it's interesting too, because as kids, we wrestle around with each other. And then at some point it's like, keep your hands to yourself.

(58:34) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

(58:36) Justin McMillen: And then unless you're a wrestler, that's like, like my buddy was telling me, go on, like, a wrestling bus. Like, that's going to, in a way, and you end up seeing a bunch of people just laying all over each other. I was like, that, really? I mean, he's like, dude, we're, like, climbing all over each other all day.

(58:51) Justin McMillen: He's like, there's, you know, those physical things, like what you're talking about. Even just understanding your body and space and what you're capable of doing. And yeah, there's something that most people don't know. And I've been thinking about this lately. So my daughter, my six year old daughter is boxing now, right? Which is a little crazy. I went, I went to watch yesterday and I was like, my wife's like, sometimes they take to it fast.

(59:13) Justin McMillen: She does. She's, and she loves it. And she's got the right personality for it. She's very athletic and she's just, like, incredibly focused even at six. But she put her head gear on and she got up, and I think, I'm like, she was so excited to have me watch her spar. And all the kids are bigger than her.

(59:30) Justin McMillen: And I was like, what's the coach going to do here? You know? Yeah. And they put the two of the Swedish kids with her and they were super gentle. But she was just going crazy. And I was thinking about how valuable it is, and it was in the gym I used to train. And so one of the things I promised the doctor who fixed my pancreas was, he was like, promise me you won't do this anymore.

(59:51) Justin McMillen: And I said, if you fix me, I give you my word, I won't do it anymore. So it's weird. Yesterday was the first day I've been back since. I got her there. Went into a gym? Yeah, the same gym that I got hurt in. Later, I was telling, I was like, that's the wall where I got kicked. And my daughter's now this tall and, like, yeah, big old thing on her head like a marshmallow.

(1:00:08) Justin McMillen: Yeah. She's in there doing her deal. But it made me miss it a lot, because I remember thinking, you know, even six months, it was, it was just, like, just under two years that I was going at it really strong. I was trying to, I was developing a form of therapy for our treatment center in Oregon. And I want, you know, I developed the entire model that we use at Tree House to treat addiction and mental health, and I needed a new type of modality that would be similar to what we do in Orange County on these boats.

(1:00:40) Justin McMillen: And I decided that mixed martial arts was going to be a thing, but I was like, I'm not just going to let somebody do this. I have to learn. And so I went at it really hard. And the feeling I had after about six months, when I, I remember constantly, that the biggest thing for me, and I tell guys this, is that if you've never been in a position where you kind of go rage, you know, where someone's hitting you.

(1:01:03) Justin McMillen: I had a really good sparring, multiple good sparring partners, but one guy who was such a good boxer, and he would watch me get wild eyed and he'd laugh and he'd just keep popping me, you know what I mean? And it was like, he's like, calm down. Like, breathe, you know what I mean? And, like, as a man, not sitting with that part of yourself, I think is, and understanding it, it's super dangerous because we all have it.

(1:01:23) Justin McMillen: And if you don't know how to dance with it or play with it, like, you're kind of out of control. Yeah. And I never in my life felt more in control than I did during that period. And there's a feeling you have where it's a, you know, that your body is capable of doing these things, and you're very clear that if you haven't thrown a punch ever or in a long time, that it's way different than doing rounds on a heavy bag for days or weeks or months. Like, yeah, it's a complete, you know, there's, there's a confidence.

(1:01:50) Justin McMillen: It's hard to explain. And I'm doing a shitty job explaining it, but it's, yeah, I think people, yeah. What you said about people training, I think it's good. What would you tell parents who are trying to put, or thinking about putting their kids into a martial art?

(1:02:07) Keenan Lewis: I would probably tell parents who are thinking about putting their kids in martial arts to, you know, push them a little bit.

(1:02:15) Keenan Lewis: I think that as parents, we're kind of like, we step back and we're like, you know, only if he likes it. Only if they want to do it. But we know a little better. We've been through things before. Your first go about something might not be realistic. Maybe it was a little discouraging. You know, maybe the coach didn't call on you.

(1:02:34) Keenan Lewis: You didn't get something right. Sometimes kids' first reaction is to stop and not go back. But you don't really know until you go. And you might have robbed them of that experience of overcoming something that was difficult if you don't push them a little, a little harder, you know? So I would say just overall, I think we need to be a little bit, a little bit tougher on the younger generations coming up.

(1:02:59) Keenan Lewis: I know I'm not alone in that type of thinking, but yeah, it can be very easy to give people the easy way out. And showing people that, I feel like, instills from a young age just taking flight on everything, taking flight on a goal, because it was hard, running away because something is too difficult.

(1:03:22) Keenan Lewis: You know, you have to, you get into something because you want to build confidence, because you want to build strength. Well, it comes from overcoming those little moments, you know? So you got to push them a little bit.

(1:03:33) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Not let them be, yeah. Not let them make an excuse for themselves. Yeah. I think parents do that.

(1:03:39) Justin McMillen: And they don't mean to. Do you even have kids?

(1:03:43) Keenan Lewis: No.

(1:03:44) Justin McMillen: You should.

(1:03:45) Keenan Lewis: I know, I really, I know.

(1:03:47) Justin McMillen: Do you have a girl?

(1:03:49) Keenan Lewis: No, but I know that I was meant to be a dad.

(1:03:54) Justin McMillen: Yeah, sure. Yeah. You got so much that you could, yeah.

(1:03:59) Keenan Lewis: I know, yeah, I know, I know. And I work with a lot of teens, and it's one thing that I'm proud of. I work with a lot of teens, some kids special needs, some kids disabled. And I know, like, I've got to watch a lot of these kids grow up, and, you know, the way that their parents talk to me about what I've done for them in different ways or things like that, like, I feel like all I'm doing is just being a coach.

(1:04:17) Keenan Lewis: All I'm doing is just talking, but it ends up having a profound effect on them down the line, and they become, whatever, pilots at 16 years old, or doing a new sport, or even just having courage to get a job that they might have not had before, something like that. So I do work with a lot of kids, and it's something that's always been really rewarding for me.

(1:04:38) Justin McMillen: That's, I can see you're probably the most amazing coach for them. What you said about, it's like there's going to be hard moments. And, yeah, as a parent, you put your, you know, your kids try stuff. Try stuff is the dangerous thing, right? It's just like, oh, I'm going to try this. Well, the moment you have some adversity...

(1:05:00) Justin McMillen: If it's just trying it, then it's like, I don't want to do this anymore. It was hard today. Yeah. And that is, like, the worst lesson. If you say, okay, we'll stop. It's the worst lesson you're teaching.

(1:05:11) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. And I'll bring up one example that's happened before. You know, I have kids that are about to have their first Muay Thai fight, or maybe not their first one, but they're going to do a Muay Thai fight.

(1:05:22) Keenan Lewis: And their parents have never fought before and never competed before. But here they are. The kids are signed up in Muay Thai. Maybe they won one before. Maybe they didn't. I've been with kids that went out there and lost a fight badly or something. And they come back to me and I look at the parents and they don't know what to say.

(1:05:41) Keenan Lewis: They have no idea what to tell their kid. They've never fought before or anything like that. So sometimes it's up to me to take that moment and use my voice and say, hey, man, you know, yeah, we lost today. Tomorrow we're still going to be doing the same thing we would have done. Whether you won or lost, you put in a lot of work.

(1:05:58) Keenan Lewis: There's a lot to be gained, and not a lot of people have been in your shoes right here. You just did something that very few people in the world do, you know? And you can choose right now if you want to let this moment be defined as a loss and say, that's the day that I lost and never came back. Or you can choose to take this moment, say, that's the day that I lost.

(1:06:18) Keenan Lewis: And I started making some adjustments in my training. I started looking at things differently. I started working a little bit harder, and I came back stronger. And then one way or another, inevitably that will be the case. We will come back stronger no matter what.

(1:06:33) Justin McMillen: That was so good. I'm so glad you're teaching kids. There needs to be more people like you.

(1:06:38) Justin McMillen: It's so good. I have my son, Rose, and he got injured his first year. Like, rowing is hard. It's a, you know, train six days a week. It's multiple hours. There's training outside of the thing. And I never did anything like that. We, I grew up in a totally different environment than he does, and he's really into it.

(1:06:54) Justin McMillen: And he got injured. And then it was like, you know, he needed to take a break and rest, and then he had this day where he wanted to go talk to me. So we went on a walk and, you know, his back was feeling better. And it was, so he was actually winning by injury.

(1:07:11) Justin McMillen: He was working so hard when he got injured. He wouldn't say he was injured, but he could hardly get up out of, like, lay down. And this is back, and you need that for rowing. It's like every, yeah. Yeah. And so finally it was, like, bringing him to this realization. Like, you fucked up and you've got to do something.

(1:07:26) Justin McMillen: And then I was like, you got to take care of yourself for a period of time. And so he did. And then he felt so behind, right? So he has to go on a walk and talk to me. And he's trying to convince me the whole time that he's going to quit. And I was just listening to him walk in.

(1:07:41) Justin McMillen: He's like, you know, I don't think this is the right thing for me and blah, blah, blah, and everyone's really far ahead. I'll never be able to catch up. And I was like, this idiot. I just let him talk. He went on for like 30 minutes. We're walking around the neighborhood. We sat down on the bench. I was like, you done?

(1:07:56) Justin McMillen: And he said, yeah. And I go, you want to quit? And he was like, yeah. And I go, oh yeah, so let's, let's move on. You're not quitting. And you said you're going to do this. You're going to finish. And he goes, okay, well, you're going to tell me how to get, and I'm like, dude, you said you were doing this.

(1:08:09) Justin McMillen: You're going to finish. Like, and it was crazy. It was like three weeks later we're driving. He's ecstatic. Right? He had a really good practice. Yeah. And I was like, you remember when we were talking and you said you wanted to quit? And he was, like, pissed because he didn't want to hear that. He, you know.

(1:08:24) Justin McMillen: So. Yeah. And I go, look, I got, like, a few more of those left in me as your dad, and I go, but at some point I'm not going to be here. Yeah. You have to be able to do that on your own. You're going to have plenty of other times where you feel like you want to quit stuff.

(1:08:38) Justin McMillen: And had you quit in that moment, the lesson you would have had is when things get hard, you fucking quit. I'm like, I'm here to do that for you for a while, but you have to figure out how to do it yourself. So I get it. And we've had other moments, but not like that. And he's getting better and it's hard to raise kids.

(1:08:57) Justin McMillen: It is, because you see him in pain. It's like, oh, okay, well, pain is bad. Do good to, you know, but it's like, that's not the way to love him. Yeah. You can fix it, you know, temporarily. But you know, in the long run it won't.

(1:09:09) Keenan Lewis: No.

(1:09:09) Justin McMillen: Yeah. No, it's worse. It would have been abusive to him.

(1:09:12) Justin McMillen: Yeah. To cosign his bullshit in that moment. Yeah. And so when I hear a guy like you talk like this, I'm just like, thank you. Because a lot of parents, they don't mean bad, but they're fucking it up.

(1:09:23) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, yeah. So of course, but yeah, like you said, they don't mean bad. They might have not been in that situation before.

(1:09:29) Keenan Lewis: And you were not in that specific situation either.

(1:09:32) Justin McMillen: Yeah, but I've been kicked in the nuts so many times. Like, I've owned a lot of businesses. I've failed so many times. Yeah, I've had to scrape myself back up and go. I never had anyone to be like, you know, I look around and it's like you said, it's like there's no, I have a business partner, which is, he's my brother and I love him to death.

(1:09:49) Justin McMillen: But as far as, like, is there somebody above me, other than God? It's like there's nobody I get to go to to find the answer. And it's like, you got to figure it out. So you and I are way more similar than we realize. Probably. But, you wouldn't know because you don't know me. Really. But I'm loving this.

(1:10:05) Justin McMillen: So, so were you, when you started really fighting again, you had a five win streak. If I, five fight win streak? Yeah. Is that how you say it? A five fight win streak.

(1:10:16) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, yeah. And that was, that was crazy. So, for the way that the rankings go for me, if you're inactive for two years, they pull your ranking.

(1:10:25) Keenan Lewis: So I was completely unranked. And my record at the time was three wins and five losses. And I can go into my losses really quick. Every loss that I've ever had, you can look them up. I was always winning the fight. And then something stupid that I did, like, I get caught in a submission, third round, a guy clipped me or something.

(1:10:48) Keenan Lewis: I was always winning the fight until. So all of those five losses. I was always winning the fight until. And I didn't realize it, but I was becoming preconditioned to that lose mentality. To where, if I felt like if I just did enough to show that I was in there, it was okay for me to lose.

(1:11:06) Keenan Lewis: And I made it okay for myself to lose these, these times. So it's like people are like, oh, yeah, Keenan's amazing. Oh, if it wouldn't have been this, out, it was so unlucky. Yeah. But you know, you can't, you can't. And again, no excuses with anything. So it was, what can I do to make it not okay for me to lose, you know?

(1:11:29) Justin McMillen: Maybe I didn't start it off. But did you, when you were looking at the losing streak, did you have a moment where you saw a pattern, or was it...

(1:11:39) Keenan Lewis: Not so much, because I've never lost more than two fights in a row. I never lost three in a row, but yeah, it was really frustrating. And sometimes I felt like I had a perfect camp. Other times, not so much. But it was also difficult to get fights sometimes. So you don't know, like, who you're going to be matched with, and then you end up having to take a tough one or something, and that's just kind of how it went in the earlier MMA days out here.

(1:12:06) Keenan Lewis: So when I did make my comeback, there was a lot more opponents for me and a lot more opportunities for me to fight. That's something that helped a lot. But yeah, I had a losing record. And I wish that everybody had watched all of my fights and saw that, you know, maybe I could have been eight and zero or something, but I had eight fights, and it is something, just switched.

(1:12:29) Keenan Lewis: It was actually, I would say it was the Thailand trip, but before Thailand, I had one fight after my dad's bad accident where he lost his arm. I took one fight on about a month's notice, which is not super short notice, but that was my first fight in four years, and I did that one just to do it.

(1:12:48) Keenan Lewis: Lost that one in the very, very end. Again, when I was winning the fight, a guy who I definitely would have beat the brakes off of any other day of the week. But I hadn't fought in four years, wasn't training right. And then I did that. That kind of put me, like, back into that mode. And then came Thailand, and then I came back and now I didn't really care anymore.

(1:13:09) Keenan Lewis: What happened? If I won or I lost, I just wanted to do my best, and I just wanted to keep going. So I fought a guy, winning record guy, dominant performance. Beat him there. And a part of me wanted to stop right there and say, okay, I went out there, I conquered my fear.

(1:13:28) Keenan Lewis: I got that victory. I got my hand raised, we did it. Let me go back to just being a coach. But people still wanted to see me fight again. And I didn't want to make an excuse. So I fought again. And then I won again. And then I fought again. And then I won again, even more dramatically.

(1:13:46) Keenan Lewis: So now I brought my record from a losing record to a winning record. And now at this point I'm like, I really don't care what happens anymore. I was a losing record pro MMA fighter before. Now I'm winning. Now I have a winning record. I can do anything right now. So I got an opportunity to fight this guy, he's in the UFC now, to fight a guy who was undefeated and ranked in the top...

(1:14:11) Justin McMillen: Who's that?

(1:14:12) Keenan Lewis: His name is Jesse Rosas.

(1:14:13) Justin McMillen: Okay.

(1:14:14) Keenan Lewis: And his younger brother, it was the youngest UFC fighter ever signed. So nobody wanted to fight this guy, an undefeated guy. And here I was, like, six and five at this point, and I decided to go for it. So, you know, I didn't really care what happened.

(1:14:32) Keenan Lewis: It was up north in Sacramento with A-1 Combat, and there everybody was like, oh, thank you for doing this. Thank you for taking this fight. I'm like, you don't have to thank me, you know, thank you for having me. I had a 15% chance to win that fight. I was such an underdog in that fight.

(1:14:49) Keenan Lewis: Ended up making the big upset. Pulled it out hard. I ended up getting a rear naked choke at the very end of the first round. And then finally it was my time to win. And then that one was crazy. The first round.

(1:15:03) Justin McMillen: First round?

(1:15:04) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, that one was crazy because I went from being totally unranked.

(1:15:09) Keenan Lewis: To now being in the top ten in California. Hold a big underdog win. And I had everything going against me. I was older.

(1:15:17) Justin McMillen: However, on your way up to the submission, did you have, it was a little bit of a dog fight.

(1:15:23) Keenan Lewis: I remember we went out and I landed some good strikes, pushed him up to the cage.

(1:15:28) Keenan Lewis: I ended up getting taken down. He mounted me, hit me with an elbow. I ended up reversing him and getting back to feet. And then he kicked me in the head so hard. But I used that to end up taking him down to the ground. Then he threw up a triangle on me. I got out of the triangle, and then I reached back, and I just kind of hammer fisted his head.

(1:15:51) Keenan Lewis: And I think that kind of dazed him a little bit. And then I was able to spin around and get the choke with barely any time left.

(1:15:58) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Yeah. He was bummed. Yeah. Who the hell is this guy? Yeah, exactly.

(1:16:02) Keenan Lewis: They're good people. His dad came up to me after my last fight, and, you know, they're good people.

(1:16:08) Keenan Lewis: I had him over at my gym. Spar me, both of the brothers. That was interesting.

(1:16:11) Justin McMillen: They definitely, you know, that after, yeah. Yeah, yeah, after you invited and tried to get his...

(1:16:15) Keenan Lewis: I mean, of course, but I mean, just as much as you would expect. But then not only him, his brother also. So I was going against both Rosas brothers, and their son, when they all came, by myself at my gym. So, I mean, that's what's funny about this sport. So I took a little bit of a beating that day, but I asked for it, so, you know.

(1:16:28) Justin McMillen: So after that win, though, you're like, you get, you're immediately, you're ranked top ten California. And what are you thinking at this point?

(1:16:45) Justin McMillen: How long ago was this?

(1:16:46) Keenan Lewis: This was in 2024, March 24th.

(1:16:48) Justin McMillen: March 24th. Yeah.

(1:16:50) Keenan Lewis: At that point now I'm looking at the UFC, because if Jesse would have beat me that day, he was going to get the Contender Series or get signed and go straight to UFC just like his brother. And so I kind of derailed that.

(1:17:05) Keenan Lewis: And then I had a lot of the attention on me. So now I'm looking at things a whole lot differently. And I got a lot of confidence. And then I'm getting all these different calls from all these different promotions that want me to fight for them. Ended up fighting one month after that again, in Alex F in Lights Out Promotions, and got another dominant win.

(1:17:31) Keenan Lewis: Now I brought myself to eight and five. And yeah, from out of the depths of hell, just bringing myself back. And then not only that, to add, like, a bad breakup during the time that I was supposed to fight Jesse and everything, I just was like, there's, like, no excuse, no excuse, only gratitude. Only forward.

(1:17:50) Keenan Lewis: Only let's go. Only make it happen. There was just one option in my head. I was just so focused.

(1:17:57) Justin McMillen: So you had that dominant win. And what's happening after that then?

(1:18:02) Keenan Lewis: So then now I had a five fight win streak. And now I'm looking at title fights. So my goal at that time was to fight for the title.

(1:18:12) Keenan Lewis: Then I was going to fight for the UNF title and fight for the LFA title, and then I'd be undeniable to get into the UFC. Had a fight, fought for the title, and I lost by a guillotine in the second round. Again, it was another fight where I had some good moments and looked strong. And then I had a loss from that fight.

(1:18:32) Keenan Lewis: That was tough. Tough year after that, you know, getting the momentum back. Went to Thailand again. I was supposed to have another, like, kind of a tuneup fight. And then that one ended up falling through. And then I got another opportunity to fight for another title, against Anthony Romero, the Bully, for the UNF title.

(1:18:58) Keenan Lewis: And he's somebody I've known. He was sort of a friend of mine. I trained with him before, and I decided to take that opportunity and, going into that fight, right after signing a contract, tore my LCL in my knee. Yeah, I didn't care. I cared, obviously, you know, I was out, but it wasn't going to stop, and stop.

(1:19:17) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, it was, I was up, you know, every single night, taped it up with, with ice in my sleep. And then I couldn't wrestle at all for that fight. Ended up having a really, really good performance against him. Dropped him the first round, dropped him in the second round. Definitely won the first round. And the second round.

(1:19:36) Keenan Lewis: Third round. Started to get hit with some body shots. And then in the last 30 seconds, I got hit with a flying knee that broke my nose. And so I'm thinking in that moment, like, let me just shoot in for a takedown, he'll be, like, sprawling, and then the time will run out. It'll go to the judges' scorecards.

(1:19:57) Keenan Lewis: And then instead of that happening, he spun around and choked me, and I tapped. Me, tapping. Now with five seconds to go. Yeah, with a broken nose also. So looking back on it, I'm just like, man, if I'm going to lose my fight, at least let me not break my nose. If I'm going to break my nose, at least let me win my fight.

(1:20:16) Keenan Lewis: Like, one of the two. I just got, I got the nose broken plus lose a fight.

(1:20:21) Justin McMillen: So you're just gushing?

(1:20:22) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. Face down. Oh, yeah. It was a really bad break. Yeah. And I wanted to win that title, and then I was going to retire right there. And then that happened. And then people still wanted to see me fight.

(1:20:35) Keenan Lewis: They just saw one of my best fights against a guy who has been knocking people out in 20 seconds. This guy's record is insane. He's definitely, he's next. He's preparing for a short notice UFC fight right now. But the guy is good. And everybody was expecting him to steamroll me, and they saw a war.

(1:20:55) Keenan Lewis: They saw a bloody battle in a war where, you know, I displayed great striking, and I dropped him, and they had a great performance. And everyone's like, rematch, rematch, rematch. And I'm like, yeah, you guys need to cool it on the rematch. You know, my nose is busted. I'm like, I don't know what I have left in me.

(1:21:12) Keenan Lewis: But I know that wasn't how I wanted to go out there.

(1:21:16) Justin McMillen: Was that 2025?

(1:21:17) Keenan Lewis: This was, yeah, that was, it was August 2025.

(1:21:19) Justin McMillen: Okay.

(1:21:20) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. It wasn't how I wanted to go out. So eventually, you know, after I, no surgery, everything, I got myself back to training and started putting the pieces together again, started getting that mentality again.

(1:21:33) Keenan Lewis: And then I decided that I was going to fight again, and it was going to be my last dance.

(1:21:40) Justin McMillen: And everything. Why did you decide for it to be the last one? I decided, you were really right there. Yeah, yeah.

(1:21:48) Keenan Lewis: I really, I got close, you know. I decided it was going to be the last fight because I felt like I had given it everything.

(1:21:57) Keenan Lewis: I had had every experience for me, you know. I've had the wins, I've had the losses. I've gotten to do the ads and the shows and the title fights, and I've given it 16 years of my life professionally, you know, two years amateur before that. I had just done so much, and I was seeing what else MMA had for me, and it kind of hit me that, you know, if I was going to win one more fight after this one or whatever, two more fights or three more fights, it wouldn't change how anybody looked at me.

(1:22:30) Keenan Lewis: It wouldn't change how I looked at myself. And I was ready to see what else this life has to offer me.

(1:22:38) Justin McMillen: Yeah. It's an important moment, right, to choose to shift and to focus on something else. And those are big. I mean, that's a big moment for people. And so how did you end up fighting this last guy?

(1:22:55) Justin McMillen: What was his name?

(1:22:56) Keenan Lewis: My opponent's name in my last fight was Carlos Lazarus. Yeah. Good guy. I watched him fight when I made my comeback in 2022, he was on the same card. So I've watched him, you know, go and stay active. Nice guy. We were about the same age, had the same amount of fights, and so I thought it'd be a good match for the last one.

(1:23:23) Keenan Lewis: Somebody the same age as me, and somebody who had the same amount of fights, and, you know, he's another trainer. Another coach, a good guy. We actually had a contract signed, like, the year prior, and the fight didn't end up happening. He ended up fighting somebody else and getting a win. So I have a lot of respect for him.

(1:23:41) Keenan Lewis: He had really a dominant win over somebody who I used to train with as well. So I didn't know what really to expect out of him technique wise or fight wise. But I knew it'd be a good match.

(1:23:54) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah. So then you came, you, so you, then that fight was a couple weeks ago. So by the time this episode releases, it'll probably be a month ago, but...

(1:24:04) Justin McMillen: And where can people go watch it?

(1:24:06) Keenan Lewis: That one is on Starfund. Yeah. Starfund stream. Yeah. I don't know too many other spots, but yeah, UNF is always putting on really good, high quality production. If you're anybody in the regional area and you're thinking about fighting, definitely contact UNF. Up Next Fighting promotions.

(1:24:26) Keenan Lewis: They're doing great stuff. And it's nice to have them here. Like I said, I spent so many years where I couldn't really get a fight or, win, had to be out of state or way up this way or that way. Up Next Fighting is in LA. We're right here. So it's a really good regional scene to fight with.

(1:24:41) Justin McMillen: Are they, have they been around a while?

(1:24:43) Keenan Lewis: No. They've only been around since 2021 or 2022. So yeah, they're changing the game.

(1:24:48) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

(1:24:49) Keenan Lewis: They came out of the woodwork and started putting on some really good fights. Like, usually for regional fights you're not going to get, like, that level of production, the work that they do, building up the fights, all the social media, building up their fighters.

(1:25:04) Keenan Lewis: They do a great job at the Commerce Casino. They make it, like, top notch.

(1:25:09) Justin McMillen: Nice, nice. I think it's good. There needs to be some other folks in the game, you know? Yeah, it's a big deal. So you won the fight. And we talked about how rough, we were talking about this before we started, or not, where we film.

(1:25:26) Justin McMillen: And when we talked about Luke, do you know? I don't know, but why don't you tell about the, did you already talk about the fight? You did. You did a little bit. Yeah. Just now.

(1:25:36) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. But so when my, when my last fight, got my black belt right there in the cage, that was great. That was a long time coming for my black belt.

(1:25:44) Keenan Lewis: And there, it was such a huge weight off of my shoulders in that moment. And the thing that hit me most in that moment, again, once again, was the gratitude. That moment would be nothing without the people that were there to watch. That moment would have meant nothing without my opponent. It would have meant nothing without all of the hard work and sacrifice and trials and tribulations that I had leading up to that one moment.

(1:26:12) Keenan Lewis: That victory would mean nothing if I didn't have to overcome what I did, you know. And just, it was like a big, it was an ego death in some ways, you know, just letting that piece of me die right there in that moment. And making the deliberate choice to lay my gloves down.

(1:26:29) Justin McMillen: Yeah. That image of you with the gloves in front when you're just kneeling down in front is, like, that's something else.

(1:26:36) Justin McMillen: Hopefully you got a good picture of that.

(1:26:38) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. We did. We got, yeah. We got some good ones.

(1:26:41) Justin McMillen: Yeah. Like, you make that, like, big black and white thing, put it on the wall at your gym.

(1:26:46) Keenan Lewis: Or yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like, what's that coach. That was my last fight that got my bell rung a little bit, but...

(1:26:51) Keenan Lewis: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all that stuff made this story even better. You know, having to come back, if I had a dominant performance, it would have been cool in one way. But once again, I'm just happy to show people another piece of my heart through a fight.

(1:27:06) Justin McMillen: Yeah, yeah. And so now you're, how old again?

(1:27:09) Keenan Lewis: I'm 35.

(1:27:09) Justin McMillen: 35. And you have a gym?

(1:27:11) Keenan Lewis: Yes.

(1:27:11) Justin McMillen: What's it called?

(1:27:12) Keenan Lewis: Saekson's Santa Clarita. So we are Saekson's Muay Thai. I've been with my coach for about 15 years, and now came to open our third location and gave me the opportunity to become a partner in that. Yeah. Just good people, you know. It's one of those things where, you know, you can almost call it sweat equity, where you look back and you think about all the times where you went above and beyond for your teammates or for something, or did some shit where you were not getting paid for, just because it was the right thing to do.

(1:27:47) Keenan Lewis: You don't always know how it's going to pay off for you in those moments, but you do it just because of who you are. And then over a long enough timeline, things are going to work out for you, you know? And what you're getting in your life is a direct correlation to what you've done, how you've treated other people, how you've lived in a certain way.

(1:28:08) Keenan Lewis: You know, you just need to stay consistent.

(1:28:11) Justin McMillen: That's good advice, I think. So this is a third of this gym that's opened, and you're the owner of it. You're a partner.

(1:28:22) Keenan Lewis: Oh yeah. Partner.

(1:28:24) Justin McMillen: Okay. So then what city is it in?

(1:28:27) Keenan Lewis: That's in Santa Clarita.

(1:28:29) Justin McMillen: Santa Clarita. If people want to find you, you got a phone number or a website? Where are you? Where do they go?

(1:28:34) Keenan Lewis: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, hit us up on Instagram. Saekson Santa Clarita. We're at 23333 Cinema Drive in Santa Clarita. Great spot. We got plenty of space. Kids class, adults class. Yeah. Follow me on the gram or any of my coaches. And we'll be...

(1:28:47) Justin McMillen: What's your Instagram handle?

(1:28:49) Keenan Lewis: It's keen.fit.mma.

(1:28:50) Justin McMillen: Okay. All right.

(1:28:51) Keenan Lewis: Saekson's Muay Thai, also Saekson Muay Thai. You'll see all of our information there, and yeah, we're happy to help you guys in this great growing sport of Muay Thai.

(1:29:01) Justin McMillen: Beautiful. And we'll put all that in the show notes. Right, Luke? Yeah. Okay. Lewis. Thank you.